howsmyenglish | another question about choice of words

Public - toilet? lavatory? latrine?

In the context of South Asia, "latrine" is used a lot. I guess it's for two reasons: a) it kind of emphasizes the huge difference between what people know as a "toilet" in the Western world and a "latrine" in South Asia; and b) for obvious reasons, South Asian English tends to be very British and a bit archaic.

What I want to know is how weird the words lavatory and latrine sound to a regular native English speaker? (whether you're on this or that side of the pond)
Maybe, they do sound weird, but cease to do so when the context is South Asia?
How do you call a public toilet? And what would you use, if you spoke about South Asia?

And in case I don't say it enough, I'm very grateful to everyone, who responds to these questions - a broad variety of answers helps determine a kind of trend. Thanks to all of you!

PS after the first couple of answers: So who uses "toilet"? The Germans? XD Does anyone in the English speaking world actually use that word?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

michaelboy

Most commonly (at least in the United States), it is referred to as a Public Bathroom.

From:

iddewes

Lavatory sounds very British English to me. (Also older upper class person - eg I can imagine the Queen saying that). Latrine sounds more like something in the army or at a campsite. Public toilets would be referred to as such usually in the UK (or, The Ladies or The Gents) and as restrooms or bathrooms in the US, in Canada I heard washroom most often.
I haven’t been in South Asia and people of south Asian extraction that I knew in Canada or the UK basically spoke the same as everyone else in those countries.

Edited Date: 2023-07-16 01:09 pm (UTC)

From:

randomdrops

"Latrine" is most often associated with the military in the US. Lavatory, to me, is very British but I don't know if they actually use it often or I've been influenced by books and television!

In the US I would say bathroom, public bathroom, and restroom are all used interchangeably.

I'm afraid I am woefully ignorant about the trends and wording in South East Asia - which means I find all this very educational and interesting! I love learning about cultural differences and linguistics.

From:

howsmyenglish

I love learning about cultural differences and linguistics.
That's great, that means we'll find a lot to talk about! :D

Btw, South East Asia and South Asia are two different regions, and I also keep getting confused what is what. Basically, South Asia is India and adjacent countries like Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, etc. South East Asia would be what? Indonesia, Philippines and that region? Yep, Google agrees, also - Laos, Vietnam, Thailand, etc.

From:

havocthecat

Latrine sounds very military to me. Lavatory sounds very European. I'd accept both without comment if someone said it to me, though. Latrine has a toilet connotation and lavatory has a bathroom connotation (again, to me).

I haven't thought about what's specifically in the context of South Asia, I think mostly because the South Asian friends I have are people I've interacted with in either an internet context, where we're not talking about a bathroom, or in the U.S., where they've mostly adapted to talking about it in a U.S. context so as to be more easily understood (I assume).

In my section of the U.S., the "toilet" is the actual mechanism that flushes into the sewer and the bathroom is the room that houses the toilet and sinks to wash in. So we'd call it a public bathroom or a public restroom. Neither of which is entirely accurate, because you don't bathe in it nor do you rest in it, but it's one of those "politeness" things we do - probably for the same reasons that other places will use latrine or lavatory. (Which is, again, why I'd never bat an eye at anyone using lavatory! Whatever makes someone comfortable!)

From:

howsmyenglish

Latrine sounds very military to me. Lavatory sounds very European. I'd accept both without comment if someone said it to me, though.
The last sentence is an important addition!

Latrine has a toilet connotation and lavatory has a bathroom connotation (again, to me).
Husband said so, too!

In my section of the U.S., the "toilet" is the actual mechanism that flushes into the sewer and the bathroom is the room
Also an important addition, I did not realize that. In Russian and German "toilet" can mean both.
In the text that I'm working with the actual mechanism is called a "flush" and I have the feeling it's thanks to another such question of mine on DW that I've translated that as "flush toilet" (as opposed to the once without any "flush").

From:

iddewes

It can mean both the room and the actual toilet in the UK too.

From:

howsmyenglish

Good to know!

From:

havocthecat

The last sentence is an important addition!

I mean, people go through so many shenanigans and circumlocutions to be polite when discussing bodily functions that I feel it's just polite to accept them! (I like "shark week" best of every single one of those, though, which is not one of the ones we're discussing, but it's still my favorite.)

I've heard "flush toilet" referred to mean the same thing as "toilet" for the actual mechanism. So I could see someone calling it the "flush" as either an abbreviation or to avoid using the word "toilet!"

Actually, this is a really useful conversation to me to see how these rooms and items are referred to in other countries, so thanks for hosting it!

From:

heartonsnow

Yeah, people do say "toilet" or even "lavatory" but mostly "Loo"!!! Or in public "The Ladies" meaning Ladies Loo!!

From:

howsmyenglish

Loo is like the German Klo - must both be coming from "closet" - but both very colloquial.

From:

heartonsnow

Language wise, yes, but everyone says Loo where I am here in London, or "The Ladies" when out and about to be polite.

From:

soricel

I think I agree with all of the above...I remember growing up (in the U.S.) though and having some teachers encourage us to use the word "lavatory." I've never heard anyone use the word in actual conversation though.

Now I'm wondering about "WC" too. Where/how's that used?

From:

spiderswelcome

It's WC in Hungary, pronounced vei-tzei.

From:

soricel

Interesting…most public restrooms in Romania (where I live) are labeled “WC,” but I’ve never heard someone use this term out loud

From:

howsmyenglish

In Germany, we also say WC (pronounced very similarly to the Hungarian version), but that's only the _public_ toilet. No one would ever say WC to a private toilet.

From:

iddewes

oh and toilet is definitely the official word in the Uk for public toilets, loo or ladies etc are slang, if you see a sign it says toilets. We are more direct than Americans that way.

From:

howsmyenglish

Oh, cool, so toilet is also an option!

From:

meowmensteen

The most common thing people say here is bathroom or restroom. Saying toilet honestly sounds British to me. If someone says latrine or lavatory it sounds like they're intentionally trying to sound hoity-toity. Of course once you have kids, you start to say potty. In fact in my house the way you say potty communicates whether it's #1 or #2. If you say: pot-tay it implies #2. Now that I think of it, they also call it potty at my work with the kids.

Thinking about it, I remember when I was a school kid I was taught that if I needed to use the restroom I needed to raise my hand, then the teacher would call on me. I was expected to say, "May I please use the restroom?" If you didn't ask correctly, the teacher would ask you to repeat the question correctly. This wasn't just one class, it was this way all through my schooling.

From:

howsmyenglish

"May I please use the restroom?"
Haha, when I learnt Kazakh in school, and someone was late for class, the teacher would only let us in, if we asked "may I please come in" correctly. It's one sentence of Kazakh language I've never forgotten. (Though I've no idea how to write it...)

From:

hamsterwoman

Haha, you seem to be getting overwhelming consensus, but since you asked for multiple answers:

1) I (US West Coast) would say "public restroom" as the most common, "neutral" word. "Bathroom" is also used, but it's "restroom" on signs/map legends; not sure if that's a regional thing or a time thing, or what.

2) "Lavatory" sounds very British -- and maybe subconsciously somewhat "fancy" because of that? Like, I'm definitely not imagining a hole in the ground when I hear "lavatory" in isolation.

3) "Latrine", like others have said, has military connotations for me, and digging latrines. That's the one word I'd find distracting used in general context (though presumably I'd get used to it if it kept being used that way over the course of an article).

4) "Toilet" -- immediate connotations of the word are the commode itself (unitaz) rather than the whole location. ToiletS (or "public toilet") does sound synonymous with restroom, but it sounds "foreign" to me.

Oh, and totally irrelevant to your question, but it made me think of it and I thought you might get some amusement out of it: Our bathroom at home has a printed sign on it that's been there for 20 years, basically since we moved into this house: СРАЛИЩЕ (it's got a little flap so that we can cover it when people who could read it but would not be amused by it visit). The genesis of this is that I was explaining the -ИЩЕ suffix to B, as "place where you do X" (as opposed to the "big scary X" suffix that he already knew), like убе́жище or ристалище, and he immediately coined -- that.

From:

howsmyenglish

it's got a little flap so that we can cover it when people who could read it but would not be amused by it visit
LOL

here's what friends of ours used to have on their bathroom door:
https://cs12.pikabu.ru/post_img/2022/02/10/6/164448652316749760.jpg

From:

hamsterwoman

Hee! :D

From:

fauxklore

I heard "lavatory" a fair amount in the eastern U.S. in the 1960's and 1970's. "Restroom" is the most common for public facilities now. People use "bathroom" at home. Canadians tend to say "washroom." I also people refer to "the facilities" or "the necessary."

Americans are uncomfortable with saying the word "toilet" but I've learned to use it when traveling.

Edited Date: 2023-07-16 08:43 pm (UTC)

From:

howsmyenglish

Americans are uncomfortable with saying the word "toilet" but I've learned to use it when traveling.
Yep, I've noticed that! A lot of euphemisms. Germans are far less... what's the word I'm looking for?.. affected? stilted?..

From:

grayswandir

Another answer, similar to

hamsterwoman's and mostly repeating things others have already said:

1) I'm from the southwestern US. I would say "restroom" in the context of a public restroom or someone "using the restroom." I'd say "bathroom" in the context of something like architecture or interior design, or just talking about the room in general ("the house has three bathrooms," "we're remodeling the bathroom," "I'll put your clothes in the bathroom," etc.).

2) As far as I understand, what's called a "restroom" or "bathroom" in the US is called a "toilet" in the UK. I think for most people in the US, the word "toilet" sounds kind of gross, since for us it refers specifically to the commode, not the room. (To me "public toilet" sounds especially dirty since "public" puts emphasis on the fact that a lot of people use it.)

3) I don't know if I've ever heard anyone say "lavatory" except in older movies, and I don't remember if those were British or American movies. It sounds dated and overly formal to me, if not necessarily foreign.

4) Latrine does sound military, but in particular it makes me think of an outdoor stall or cubicle with a hole in the ground.

5) I've only heard "W.C." or "water closet" used in Hong Kong and China. I assume it's older British English that's still used there because it was common in the past, but I don't know if "W.C." is still used in the UK.

6) I don't know what restrooms are like in South Asia, so I can't comment on those. But in case other examples are helpful: When I visited Kazan, the university had restrooms similar to public restrooms in the US, except that inside the stalls, there were just holes in the ground, no toilets. I'd still call those "public restrooms." I also visited some historical sites and architectural ruins where there the facilities were just outdoor stalls with holes in the ground, and sometimes no doors. I think those could be called "latrines." "Toilets" would also sort of work for facilities like that, at least more so than "restrooms," since they're just a place where waste is deposited, not a "room."

From:

howsmyenglish

"the house has three bathrooms"
But that's like when it's an actual bathroom - not only the toilet itself, but also a sink and shower/bath or something?
In some houses, there's a separate, say, master bathroom with all of the above and a separate little "guest toilet". How would you call that?

(To me "public toilet" sounds especially dirty since "public" puts emphasis on the fact that a lot of people use it.)
Or worse - that it stands our there in public without an actual room around it! XDDD

Your number 6 is extremely helpful. And yes, for the most part, I need a term for the "hole in the ground" kinds of toilets, even if there are "flushes" installed. No stalls. One room, eight holes with flushes. Extremely filthy. I think, I'm sticking with "latrines".

From:

hamsterwoman

n some houses, there's a separate, say, master bathroom with all of the above and a separate little "guest toilet". How would you call that?

At least around here, anything with a toilet would get counted as a bathroom, but as a fractional bathroom depending on what else is in it. So, full bath = toilet, sink, shower, and tub. Half-bath = toilet + sink (I think what you're describing as "guest toilet", since guests presumably won't need to take a shower). A three-quarters bath is typically a toilet, sink, and shower -- but I'm not sure if something with a fancy walk-in shower that takes up as much space as a tub would still count as that. And I've seen "toilet only, go somewhere else to wash your hands" counted as 0.25 of a bath.

Googling to refresh my memory of this, apparently you can count other fractional components and call that a bathroom, even without a toilet (e.g. outdoor shower as a quarter bath, sink + shower as a half-bath), but I've never seen that in the wild. I've only seen a thing where toilet is in one room and sink + shower + tub in another referred to as a split bathroom, but counted towards a sign full bath (they are quite uncommon -- although apparently more common in SF than other places in the US?)

From:

grayswandir

a separate little "guest toilet". How would you call that?

Like

hamsterwoman said, in the US if you're describing the architecture or selling the house, you'd call it a "half bathroom" (usually abbreviated to "half bath"). If you're just talking casually, you'd simply call it a bathroom. I'd say the house I live in has three bathrooms, but one of them is just a small room with a toilet and sink. And as some other people mentioned, in the US we also say "public bathroom" for any public room with stalls and toilets, where there's definitely no bath!

For the record, I feel like English (or at least US English) doesn't have very good ways to talk about some of these differences! The house I stayed at in Russia had one room with a shower and sink and another room with a toilet, and honestly I would have no idea what to call those to differentiate them in English -- to me they're both "bathrooms." (I think if I really had to differentiate, I'd call the room with the toilet the "bathroom," and I'd call the other room "the room with the shower." XD) In the house I live in right now, the master bathroom has a shower/bath and sink plus a tiny interior room with just the toilet in it, I guess so that in theory one person could use that room privately while someone else used the sink or shower. But we don't have a separate name for that tiny room; we just think of it as, like, some random extra walls inside the bathroom.

I had no idea what to call the outdoor holes in the ground when I was in Russia. I was there as part of a study abroad group, and I think our teachers probably just told us "the bathrooms are over there" and let us find out for ourselves that they meant some holes in the ground. XD Personally, I probably would have said something more vague like "the restroom area is over there."

Anyway, yeah, I don't think there's any "correct" or even "best" answer for what to call the facilities you describe in South Asia. Any of the words people have mentioned are possible! But looking back at your original post, since you say "In the context of South Asia, 'latrine' is used a lot," I think that probably is a good choice, especially since it sounds like you do want to emphasize the dirtiness and the differences from Western-style facilities.

Edited (Forgot to add one sentence at the end.) Date: 2023-07-17 05:25 pm (UTC)

From:

flikkeren

I would say (in California/United States), public bathroom or public restroom, or even just restroom or bathroom depending on the context. Like if we're walking around a park and I say "I need to use the restroom," it's obvious that I mean the public restroom at the park. In some cities, it's extremely hard to find a public bathroom and there basically aren't any, you have to go into a place of business and ask them to use it and hopefully they'll say yes but you might have to buy something or at least plausibly be a patron.

Lavatory and latrine both are barely in use, in fact I know adults who might not really know what those words even are if I used them. Of course anyone who does have some education and reads and stuff would know. Lavatory sounds very formal and British and sounds kinda clean; latrine has connotations of being more...gross? Like just being an outhouse without any running water. I don't actually have much knowledge about South Asia (never visited), but if someone used the word "latrine" and specifically referenced South Asia in the same sentence, I might think they meant like an open trench or somewhere to squat, if the speaker was American. If the speaker was from another country (Britain or something), I might assume they just meant a "regular" bathroom.

We use toilet all the time (way more common than lavatory or latrine), but really only to refer to the actual...thing itself, not the room that houses it. Maybe it's due to prudishness somewhat? If you say you're going to "use the toilet," that means you're undoing your pants and excreting stuff from your nethers. It's more polite to use bathroom or restroom since it's not as obvious what you're doing--maybe you just need to wash your hands, or fix your hair, do makeup, or use the mirror, change your clothes, splash some water on your face, put in contacts, or anything you might just need water/sink or some privacy for. I'm familiar with the phrase "doing one's toilet" as something that British/foreigners say, but children/teens/and some adults would not know what that meant and be weirded out by it. Toilet here definitely refers to the thing you flush and nothing else.

From:

flikkeren

And since someone mentioned "water closets"--to me those are a very specific type of toilet, with the water being held up near the ceiling in a wooden case (at least it's wooden on the outside), with a pull handle. They are definitely old fashioned and I've only used a few of them ever, like at my aunt and uncle's house (built in 1900, original toilet), on an old vintage riverboat, and at my father in law's, who bought the house from someone who had installed it for the fun/wow factor. But it is sometimes used to refer to any toilet, but usually only in a joking way when someone is trying to be overly delicate, old timey, or silly.

From:

deird1

In Australia: "toilet". Or "the loo".

We would never EVER say "lavatory" or "latrine", but we'd understand them.

To my ear: "lavatory" sounds very British, "using the bathroom / restroom" sounds American, and "latrine" sounds like something you'd use in the army.