thinking out loud about TROPES

[howsmyenglish]

Somehow this thing - trope - has completely passed me by. I've only started thinking about this word (this idea) a couple of months ago. I mean, sure, I know a lot of tropes - if you google something about them, you find long lists with things like "femme fatale", "damsel in distress" and "trophy wife", and you think, aaaaah, suuuuure... But still, somehow it is hard for me to get used to the whole concept. Just... to start thinking like that. I even have trouble explaining what exactly is my problem. So, if you don't mind, I'll just talk out loud about tropes and my diss, and, maybe, you'll want to add something and in the end I'll be a little smarter...

When I was telling my friend about one of the things for my PhD, she said: she (the author we talked about) is inventing new tropes! And I was like... wha? And she said some things about tropes I didn't really understand - once again... I believe, she said that a trope is not just a character, but a character you can actually meet in the street? Does this sound right? No idea, why I'm soooo ignorant and unable to grasp this thing... Anyhow, my friend says I'm not dumb and that I actually understand this, but I lack terminology. I really hope she's right.

The thing is that she (that author we talked about) writes a lot about women and she has two kinds of them (tropes?): one kind are poor-women-who-suffer-because-of-men and the other strong-women-with-agency-of-their-own. Then, there are men. There are bad-men (usually equals men who treat women badly) and good men (very little of them, some of them are barely present, but they all treat women nicely).

So... what I would like to know: are they all tropes? I mean, who decides what's a trope and what's not? I mean, are they predefined somehow? Or can I just come and say: look, there are these four tropes... Does someone even understand what my problem is? Because I don't.

If you didn't understand any of this, but know and understand about tropes, could you just write a comment and use the word "trope" in a sentence? Maybe even a couple of times?



I mean, there are these two "men tropes"... can I say she is inventing them, because previously there haven't been such tropes - a bad man because he treats women badly and a good man because he treats women nicely - in this particular kind of literature? And she is kind of bringing them into existence? And the same with the women?

I think, I'm starting to get this: the tropes are not the characters/archetypes, but the... common motifs, maybe? bad men who behave badly with women get to regret it (many different ways), women who are independent and active succeed and improve their lives etc... let's look at this in a week or so...

Comments

[aim_of_destiny]

well, the internet uses the word 'trope' very differently from english literature people.

in the english lit world, a trope is a reoccurring motif, either just a phrase or a whole character, in a particular work or an author's whole oevre.

on the internet, a trope is usually a particular character type or cliché that occurs and reoccurs in media. if you want a sampling of this (and possibly to lose a few hours of your life to clicking links), check out tvtropes.com

i also think your two types of women characters and men characters are too general to be tropes in the internet sense; people tend to categorize more finely. the hard-bitten noir detective is a trope. the happy-go-lucky kid is a trope. the police officer one day from retirement is a trope. all three could go into either one of your categories for male characters.
also, tropes can be story beats rather than character types, too: kicking the dog is a trope. going on a road trip is a trope. logicking a computer to death is a trope.

...is any of this at all helpful?

[howsmyenglish]

Yes, especially the first sentence. And the second.
This is probably the reason why I am getting so confused: the internet is talking about something else. This is a good beginning. At least knowing to differentiate between the internet thing and the English thing. Thank you.

[aim_of_destiny]

i'm glad i could help! :)

[corvidology]

That's just not a correct use of the word "trope" in the English language. I think "archetype" might be closer to what your friend is trying to explain.

In fandom even, trope is used much more often to describe a certain type of story element/genre rather than a character.

[howsmyenglish]

Nooo, she's a busy-busy English professor, she knows what she means. I'm the idiot who's unable to explain.

[corvidology]

Over to the OED

[howsmyenglish]

it wants me to login ))
still, i see that I've mixed something up, and I've no idea what she meant, and she's abroad for some weeks, but I'll ask when she comes back and update you if you're interested :)

[corvidology]

Ah, sorry.

Noun:
a. Rhetoric. A figure of speech which consists in the use of a word or phrase in a sense other than that which is proper to it. Hence (more generally): a figure of speech; (an instance of) figurative or metaphorical language.

Verb:

1. transitive. To represent or interpret (something) in a figurative or metaphorical way. Now chiefly: to express or depict (an image, idea, etc.) figuratively, esp. as a literary motif.

[alasse_irena]

I know and understand about tropes in the fandom sense, but not in the academic sense. But yes, if you notice a recurring theme or character archetype or something, you can call that a trope. There's not a pre-established list.

[howsmyenglish]

Thank you!

[thewayne]

Wikipedia has a good exploration of the literary usage:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trope_(literature)

I tend to agree that a trope is something that is self-creating through thematic re-use and sticks in, and is picked up by, the zeitgeist. If you try to create a trope you're really just creating an archetype which may or may not be picked up by others and might become a trope, but might just be viewed as Mary Sue'ing and be looked upon as silly.

But as others have pointed out, this is more of a common usage/fannish viewpoint, not an academic one. Your prof may be approaching it from a different angle. It would be interesting to explore it from both viewpoints and see where they diverged and if there can be a reconciliation.

[howsmyenglish]

I think it's great that I wrote about it here. It really helped thinking. Thanks! :)

edited to say: I mean, it and all you comments!